need strategy advice and a some motivation

[Kuso]

So I just lost the biggest pot I've ever played, and I feel a little sick. Yuck.

Villain is a 90% VPIP player who will call down and/or jam with non-nut hands. I had already stacked him once with my nut str8 over his second str8 (full stack). He had really been showing down a lot of crap.


OMAHA HI/LO POT LIMIT ($1/$2)
Table 'Mentor V' Seat #2 is the button
Seat 2: Hero ($322.75 in chips)
Seat 4: SlickLogan ($87.85 in chips)
Seat 5: sorerichard ($40 in chips)
Seat 6: Swoosh94 ($34 in chips)
Seat 7: GalatiaKid ($243.65 in chips)
Seat 9: Villain ($202.85 in chips)
SlickLogan: posts small blind $1
sorerichard: posts big blind $2

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [Js Qc Ks Td]
Swoosh94: folds
GalatiaKid: folds
Villain: raises $2 to $4
Hero: calls $4
SlickLogan: folds
sorerichard: calls $2

Raise can mean anything... like, he has four cards. i call looking to trap.

*** FLOP *** [2d Kd Kc]
sorerichard: checks
Villain: bets $12.35
Hero: raises $37.05 to $49.40
sorerichard: folds
Villain: raises $111.15 to $160.55
Hero: raises $111.15 to $271.70
Villain: calls $38.30 and is all-in

I raise to isolate so that a flush draw doesn't try to get cute. when villain reraises, i feel a bit pukey, but...

I put him on Kx, 2x, nut flush draw, or AA. If he's got AK, K2, or 22, I figure I've got outs. I don't give him a lot of credit for holding the goods.

*** TURN *** [2d Kd Kc]
*** RIVER *** [2d Kd Kc 6h]

River just rubs it in.

*** SHOW DOWN ***
Villain: shows [3h 4c 2c 2s] (HI: four of a kind, Deuces)
Hero: mucks hand
Villain collected $407.70 from pot
No low hand qualified

*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $410.70 | Rake $3
Board [2d Kd Kc 6h 2h]
Seat 2: Hero (button) mucked [Js Qc Ks Td]
Seat 4: SlickLogan (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: sorerichard (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 6: Swoosh94 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: GalatiaKid folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: Villain showed [3h 4c 2c 2s] and won ($407.70) with HI: four of a kind, Deuces

My questions are these:

1) With my read that he's REALLY loose and will play non-nut hands aggressively, did I make the right play?

2) Should I have waited for the turn before I jammed?

3) How do you play this against a solid player? Call on the flop hoping for a boat on the turn?

4) Is the result inevitable? Was I going to double him up no matter what? Could I have saved money somewhere? If so, how?

I feel REALLY bad, as that $200 was a couple of hours of solid play down the tubes. I've gotten MUCH better at limiting my losses with my losing hands and maximizing my gains with my winning hands. This hand was NOT my typical style, but I felt like the deviation from my normal style was warranted given the situation.

Any and all advice is welcome.


[Edited for clarification and layout.]

[Kuso]

FWIW...


pokenum -o8 js qc ks td - 3h 4c 2c 2s -- 2d kd kc
Omaha Hi/Low 8-or-better: 820 enumerated boards containing Kc Kd 2d
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
Ks Js Qc Td 346 346 474 0 0 0 0 0.422
2s 4c 2c 3h 474 474 346 0 160 0 0 0.578


i wasn't that much of a dog against the hand as it played, and it was most likely over 50% with the range of hands i put him on.

[bdotgates]

[Kuso]

[Kuso]

[bdotgates]

yes, maybe just call there, no raise, try to fill up on the turn, or see if he slows down, if he didnt have a king or a weak king he may slow down betting.. [/quote]

[Cactus Jack]

Ugh. Bad break, mate.

I have this problem, too, which may not be the problem you're seeing. Some people just flat out piss me off! You wanted to get this guy. Wanted it real bad. It made you run head long into a brick wall.

We depend on our skill. They depend on their luck. Sometimes they win and it's unimaginable. I try real hard to not let some bozos get to me with their lucky hands, but often I'm not successful and it costs me money. Our edge is our skill. Don't give it up easily.

CJ

[Kuso]

[Cactus Jack]

[Kuso]

[Kuso]

[JDLush]

Against the average $25 dimwit I'd probably played it a bit slower and tried to boat up cheaply. If you had an ace kicker then I would be more apt to justify pounding it.

Lately, I've been playing the role of calling station against the hyper aggressive lags at the PLO8 tables. I tend to give them more credit for a decent hand on raggedy types of boards and will look to trap more when I nut up. When I don't nut up then I have at least cut my drawing cost and can let something go (in this case on the turn I guess, but I very well may have taken it to the river if the guy was that bad).

I try to look at it like this - Every once in a while those guys need to hit a hand, or they'll go broke and leave. Unfortunately, this time it was your number that came up when payoff time rolled around.

[Kuso]

yeah... one of my favorite lines is "even fish get hands sometimes".

i'm over it, and i've learned a valuable lesson from the process. there's no need for me to get greedy. i think the play was probably the right one (this is why i'm still looking for more opinions) IF i am ok with a high variance style of play -- but i'm not. i don't play enough for the swings to smooth out in a time frame that i'm comfortable with.

i just read an article on another site (post coming soon), about the reality of weak-tight play. basically it says that this style is not far from optimal if you have passive players who will pay off your monsters. this describes this guy and the tables i play at in general. add in a little selective aggression, and it's close to perfect for the tables i'm on. i think this was an instance of not being selective enough in the aggression department.

anyway, thanks for the responses, and i hope to hear a couple more.

[briachek]

I don't raise the flop at all. If someone with a flush draw wants to come along, that's fine. They normally don't bet high when they hit it thinking the board is paired and they could be drawing dead but they can't fold. I play trips (2 on the board) VERY cautiously because unless you boat up, you never feel that good about it. Call the flop and evaluate on the turn after he acts. Try to fill or get to showdown cheaply. I don't care how bad this guy is because if he has K2, 22 of AK, I'll feel like an idiot for giving away money. Of course i'll feel angry if I had him beat but if you fill up on the turn or river, I'm sure you can get him to pay you off anyway.