Nice workTiburon. I had to reload PT today so I am starting fresh again on my dBase. Previously I only used about 6 categories and they seemed to work pretty well but I will give these a shot to see how I fair with them. The one thing I will change is the TA numbers for agression on the turn and river. I think most of the truly TA players will follow through on the turn with about the same frequency as they do on the flop, namely > 1.5 and likewise on the river although it will probably drop off from the flop and turn numbers. I think my numbers were 2.5, 2.5 and 1.7.

Also congrats on your marriage, good luck.

Thanks for the kind words all. I have returned in one piece from the wedding/honeymoon, and I haven't played a single hand of poker in 3 weeks. Ugh. What doesn't kill us makes us stronger, right?

FYI, the easiest way to get the auto-rate rules is through the following link:


And piers, the only reason that I didn't add the follow-up aggressions to the TA's is because I wanted to isolate the Ultra-Aggressives from the TA's. I will try that idea on my DB and post results when I get the chance.

Thanks again for all the kind words and well wishes!

Pre-flop numbers SHOULD NOT be included in Total Aggression Factor.

Thanks.

Hey guys,

I ran some groups means on the players in my observed hands Pokerstars .25/.50 database (7168 players and 201,000 hands). Thought you might be interested as I really enjoyed the above posts/analyses.

Take note that I actually use somewhat different autorate rules (I am certainly NOT dissing Tiburion's in the least). Actually, I have have burned Tiburion's analyses into my brain regarding what types of players in the micro limit population are losing the most money so I can seek and destroy more efficiently.

Most of the differences in my autorate rules come from the fact that I use PokerAce Heads Up Display for real time stats. Thus for example Tiburion's "Bad Weak Tight" icon group is unecessary as i have the stats displayed for each player from which this group is defined.

Also, I used some broader categories for a few icon groups such as my "eagle" icon denotes all Tight and Aggressive preflp (TA) players. For postflop I can look at my HUD Aggression stats (both the total and the individual streets) to see how opponents play thus I don't need seperate categories for TAP / TAA /etc.

Once you get into using a HUD, i find that the autorate icons become much less of an issue as you can simply look at the players actual stats. You then hopefully can make more informed decisions regarding opponent's play, especially when there is only one cutoff point delineating a particular tendency. For example, say you have Passive post-flop players as those below 1.5 total aggression and Aggressive as those above. A player with .01 and one with 1.49 total aggression will look exactly the same as far as your groups are concerned.

I still use the icon groups however, when I am first assessing players and tables (e.g., i want to see at lot of fish-LPP / smileyfaces-showdownmuppets / moneybags-sLPP / bombs-Vloose / telephones-CallingStations and few Eagles-TA / exclamation points-ultraaggress).. Also when i am playing multiple tables and new players are coming in and out frequently the icons can be a quick reference.

Descriptives of Pokertracker ICON Groups in BB/100 (Pokerstars Full Ring 25./.50)

Icon name____Icon#_____Mean______N ___Std.Dev____Min_______Max ShwdnMupp___4________-8.86_____219___ 9.56____ -36.11_____13.05
VLoose_______7________-2.99_____2721__ 13.87____ -89.44____ 61.11
LPP__________2_________-2.11____ 725____ 8.89____-33.59____45.63
CallSt (LPP+)__12_______ _-2.00____ 276____ 12.83____ -42.73___ 63.70
LAP__________8_________-0.41____ 457___ 10.52____ -55.74____ 36.13
TPP__________9_________-0.30____ 217____ 5.20____ -21.89____ 16.59
sLPP_________3_________-0.14____ 510____ 7.65____ -30.65____ 38.97
TPA_________13_________ 0.95____ 133____ 5.92____ -23.57____19.03
TA (P-N-A)____15_________1.30____ 225____ 5.86____-26.08 ____ 27.11
LPA_________14_________1.36____102____ 12.82____ -57.81____45.00
sLA (P-N-A)___11_________1.54____ 451____ 8.14____-25.11_____31.79
sLPA_________5 ________2.37____ 104____ 8.23____ -21.29_____36.94
LAA_________10_________3.30____ 249____ 11.45____ -33.87____47.45
UltraAgg______6_________3.57____ 238____ 7.31_____ -25______32.68

Total_________14_______ -1.40____7168____11.87____-89.44____ 64.46


NOTES:
1- The units for the analysis above (e.g., Mean (average), Min, Max) is BB/100 and.
2. N is the # of players and the Icon# is the database reference for the specific pictures.
2- Players have a minimum of 30 hands for inclusion.
3- All hands were observed (no hands that I played in were included)
4- My autorate rules are based on a mix of Tiburion's and bisonbison's (see below)



I hope this was somewhat clear.
Cheers,
Sean



Autorate Rules Begin
Aggression:N
ARI_7 1 v-Loose
1 5 44.99 99.00 Vol. Put Money In Pot % is between 44.99 and 99.00
ARI_12 2 CS-LP-P
1 5 29.99 99.00 Vol. Put Money In Pot % is between 29.99 and 99.00
2 3 5.01 Pre-flop Raise % is less than 5.01
15 5 0.01 1.51 Aggression Factor - Total is between 0.01 and 1.51
3 5 40.99 99.00 Went To Showdown % is between 40.99 and 99.00
ARI_2 3 LP-P
1 5 29.99 99.00 Vol. Put Money In Pot % is between 29.99 and 99.00
2 3 5.01 Pre-flop Raise % is less than 5.01
15 5 0.01 1.51 Aggression Factor - Total is between 0.01 and 1.51
ARI_4 4 Showdown Muppet
4 5 5.00 28.00 Won $ At Showdown % is between 5.00 and 28.00
3 1 15.00 Went To Showdown % is greater than 15.00
ARI_10 5 LA-A
1 5 29.99 99.00 Vol. Put Money In Pot % is between 29.99 and 99.00

2 5 5.00 99.00 Pre-flop Raise % is between 5.00 and 99.00
15 5 1.50 99.00 Aggression Factor - Total is between 1.50 and 99.00
ARI_14 6 LP-A
1 5 29.99 99.00 Vol. Put Money In Pot % is between 29.99 and 99.00
2 3 5.01 Pre-flop Raise % is less than 5.01
15 5 1.50 99.00 Aggression Factor - Total is between 1.50 and 99.00
ARI_8 7 LA-P
1 5 29.99 99.00 Vol. Put Money In Pot % is between 29.99 and 99.00
2 5 5.00 99.00 Pre-flop Raise % is between 5.00 and 99.00
15 5 0.01 1.51 Aggression Factor - Total is between 0.01 and 1.51
ARI_3 8 sLP-P
1 5 19.99 30.01 Vol. Put Money In Pot % is between 19.99 and 30.01
2 3 5.01 Pre-flop Raise % is less than 5.01
15 5 0.01 1.51 Aggression Factor - Total is between 0.01 and 1.51
ARI_5 9 sLP-A
1 5 20.00 30.00 Vol. Put Money In Pot % is between 20.00 and 30.00
2 3 5.01 Pre-flop Raise % is less than 5.01
15 5 1.50 99.00 Aggression Factor - Total is between 1.50 and 99.00
ARI_11 10 sLA-(P-N-A)
1 5 19.99 30.01 Vol. Put Money In Pot % is between 19.99 and 30.01
2 5 5.00 99.00 Pre-flop Raise % is between 5.00 and 99.00
15 5 0.01 99.00 Aggression Factor - Total is between 0.01 and 99.00
ARI_9 11 TP-P
1 5 0.01 20.01 Vol. Put Money In Pot % is between 0.01 and 20.01
2 3 5.01 Pre-flop Raise % is less than 5.01
15 5 0.01 1.51 Aggression Factor - Total is between 0.01 and 1.51
ARI_13 12 TP-A
1 5 0.01 20.01 Vol. Put Money In Pot % is between 0.01 and 20.01
2 3 5.01 Pre-flop Raise % is less than 5.01
15 5 1.50 99.00 Aggression Factor - Total is between 1.50 and 99.00
ARI_6 13 TA-P
1 5 0.01 20.01 Vol. Put Money In Pot % is between 0.01 and 20.01
2 5 5.00 99.00 Pre-flop Raise % is between 5.00 and 99.00
15 5 0.01 1.01 Aggression Factor - Total is between 0.01 and 1.01
ARI_15 14 TA-(N-A)
1 5 0.01 20.01 Vol. Put Money In Pot % is between 0.01 and 20.01
2 5 5.00 99.00 Pre-flop Raise % is between 5.00 and 99.00
15 5 0.99 99.00 Aggression Factor - Total is between 0.99 and 99.00
Autorate Rules End

hmm... i just tried tiburon's rules, and i find myself labelled an "ultra-aggressor" along with both 1) others which were previously rated (using the default rules) as TAA or TA AND with 2) other very LOOSE players. is this intended? shouldn't the "ultra-aggressor" rating include a rule for VP$IP?

ok, maybe not VP$IP, but perhaps some other criteria? getting lumped in together with what seem more like LA players seems a little "off"... or maybe i really am overaggresive?

If you meet all the criteria for an ultra-aggressor, regardless of your VP$IP, you are an ultra-aggressor.

Ultra-aggressors are the biggest winners in my DB, regardless of VP$IP. More UA's (as a percentage) are winners than any other class as well.

You are not over-aggressive. You are an otherwise solid aggressive player.



And like I said, whether LA, TA, or sLA, ultra-aggressors are winners because it is far more important to play well (aggressive) after the flop than it is to be selective pre-flop. The caveat is this: The looser you play pre-flop, the better you MUST play post-flop to be successful. Also see excession's discussion in the PT forum for more details.

thank you!!!!!